WoC Summit Podcast: Tejal Patel on How Creativity Is Not about How Skillful You Are or How Successful
Welcome back to Season 1 of the Womxn of Color Summit Podcast!
The Womxn of Color Summit podcast came from a desire to learn from WOC about how they are stepping into their power and embodying their life purpose while dismantling oppressive systems.
Join your hosts Harpinder Mann and Irene Lo as they support BI&WOC on their journey of self-love and soul-care by highlighting speakers who can speak to creative living. We are inherently creative beings with unlimited potential but we can forget the spark within ourselves. Creativity is an act of bravery and our hope with the podcast is to inspire BI&WOC to own their power and pursue their liberation
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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/womxn-of-color-summit-podcast/id1531995133
In this episode, we cover:
Being an immigrant, and feeling like you couldn’t indulge in creativity because of the struggle to “succeed” in a new country.
Leaving finance to become a Yoga teacher
Feeling disconnected as a studio Yoga teacher
The lack of representation of South Asian instructors
Social justice & representation in yoga industry
Transcript
Irene: [00:00:09] Hi, everyone, my name is Irene.
Harpinder: [00:00:11] Hi, I'm Harpinder. We're so happy to welcome Tejal Patel as today's speaker for the Art of Creative Living: Womxn of Color Summit. Before we get started, please let everyone know who you are and what you do.
Tejal: [00:00:25] Thanks, guys, for having me. I know we've been trying to get on the summit line for a while, so it's exciting that it's finally here, our talk. But for those who don't know me, my name is Tejal Rajnikhan Patel. I'm a first generation Indian-American, yoga teacher, community organizer, podcaster. Some of the projects that I run or organize are Tejal Yoga and social justice classes to educate, empower individuals and communities. So, I do that through tejalyoga.com. Something fun I do with that is a guest teacher week every month, so people can meet new teachers. I co-host the Yoga is Dead podcast, so if you haven't heard about that, it's just a revolutionary podcast that really talks about the issues with the yoga industry as they relate to power and privilege. Say, racial equality. Sexual harassment, misconduct, discrimination. Stuff you don't normally attach to yoga, but it happens because it's part of an industry here. And I organized this community called ABCD Yogi. And ABCD Yogi is a community of South Asian yoga and mindfulness teachers, and we operate essentially through Instagram takeovers, where people take over all over the world, and we run programs, and IGTV programs, and talks, and all sorts of programming. So that's a lot of what I spend my time doing. And then I also focus on education based organizations that offer yoga and mindfulness to the faculty, the staff, the students, and anyone there who might be interested in mindfulness tactics to help balance their day job and their life, essentially.
Harpinder: [00:02:19] Yeah, I know for myself, I binged the yoga is Dead season one podcast in two days. Oh, this is so great! I'm learning so much. And then I just binged it. And it's like, back in January, I learned so much I thought it was great. And how are you doing today?
Tejal: [00:02:40] Today I'm doing good. It's hot where I am. I am currently in Michigan, but I typically live in Brooklyn, so a little bit of change in the middle of all the change that we're all experiencing, but doing well. Just managing.
Irene: [00:02:58] So we are asking all of our speakers this question: What does it mean to be creative to you?
Tejal: [00:03:06] Yeah, I love this question because it's not just about yoga, it's about being creative. And when I think about it, I think that some of my earliest memories are... filled with this desire to be creative. They're filled with this desire to be unique in what I create. And that, I think, has kind of limited up to a certain point what I felt I could create. Well, I just want to explain that because it's a lot for me to think about what it means to be creative. And I realized that the idea of being creative was always attached to being extremely skillful or professional with what you create. I don't know if you've ever thought that. And I think that that pressure I felt came from being a first generation kid, and trying to “succeed”, and working with the definition of what it meant to be successful. But I always felt like if I were to be creative, it would need to measure up with this definition of success.
The Immigrant Struggle Did Not Allow for Creativity
You know, I spend a lot of time thinking about it because it's not how I feel now, but I think it's what I felt growing up, because it was this way that I was taught of being— to honor like, the struggle and the difficulty that it must have been for my family to transition from living in India to just like, building this new life of sorts in the states. And I realized that it showed up in my hobbies a lot, like I would drop certain elective classes or I wouldn't like do certain creative endeavors because it didn't measure up to what I thought I needed to do to succeed and to honor that struggle, until I create a pathway of success that was, you know, essentially I know now, defined by others.
So something I still do, though, is that I still play violin. Super amateur! And still play it when I can. Just like this one thing that really helps me to tap into creativity. But I think like, as I've gotten older and as I've learned how to really express my individuality and myself clearer, I learned that being creative is really an expression of freedom. It's not about the outcome. It's not about what scale I can showcase really well. And that I realize that it comes from my sense of connection to the thing or to the people I'm doing it with, and that it comes from the sense of joy. Being creative or creating comes from connecting and joy. And I think that's so logical! Even though to create and be creative is not always logical, very intuitive. So I think it's so logical because it makes sense with my yoga. It makes sense to me that svadhisthana chakra, or the sacral energy center, is related to both our ability to create and to seek pleasure. So it's like creativity and joy right there. It’s housed in the same place, you know, it's housed in the same energy center. And I love that svadhisthana can be translated as like, “one's own abode”, which is not really a common place language. But to me, it's a place where you go and the feeling is like home. So that's what it means now to be creative to me. What can I find a sense of pleasure and joy from?
Harpinder: [00:07:05] I think there's so many just little nuggets of… just the wisdom that you dropped in that answer, like I had to turn away and grab my notebook to write down an expression of freedom, because isn't it like, when we stop attaching this sense of like perfectionism and an outcome to what we're creating or we’re just like, who cares? Like, I'm just doing this because I want to do it. Like, there's just so much joy and freedom and liberation that you're allowing yourself, that I don't think we've been taught. I know for me also, as a first generation Indian, it was just like, What is the outcome? How am I going to get success? How do I get there? It's like Point A to point B and where's the creativity and joy in that? So I just so resonated with your answer! That was just so good. Thank you.
Tejal: [00:08:02] Oh, you're welcome. It's like, how do I summarize thirty seven years of experience, right? Thirty seven years of work into this idea of being creative, which I always felt like a fraud in doing. And I love that it relates to a first generation kid’s experience. I think the mindset that is an obstacle for many people, is the same across the board. You don't have to be first generation, but it can relate really well. And that's why there's so much community in the BIWOC community, in the BIPOC community, because these are commonalities in the struggle.
Irene: [00:08:50] Yeah, I love that answer as well, and, you know, I think that what I got out of it, I'm thinking of right now, is that like, failure is irrelevant when we're talking about creativity because like, how can you fail when you've done something that gives you joy? And I think a lot of people hold back from expressing themselves. I think because they don't want to feel like their yoga pose isn't aligned or their music doesn't sound on nodes without realizing as long as you're doing it, it's all good.
Tejal: [00:09:33] Oh, it's so true, I… Sometimes I think about what is holding you back in the moment. What is like a line of thought that I want to move away from? And we just did this exercise last month in a workshop. We wrote it out and then burned it in fire as an offering, as a way to release. And my thought was, I want to move away from fear being my first response. Acknowledge that it exists, it's a part of who I am. It's the wholeness of my being. That's not something I can eradicate or race. But I don't want to care for it. I also don't want to be led by it.
You know, so I'm not going to be a professional violin player, ever. I'm good with that, right, amateur. You love, I love, I love it. And it's part of the reason why I moved into teaching yoga. It was never about the perfection of yoga. It was about the love of yoga and recognizing that I was in a career that I liked and I excelled at and I was skillful at. But here is this thing, this past that I was really devoted to and I loved. Whatever challenges presented through that, I was still able to do what I loved, and it's so true, it's so true. I didn't really put that much fear into that transition. I just felt like, OK, I've done some things to prepare and now let's see what unfolds.
Harpinder: [00:11:12] Yeah, what was that journey or your story of.. I think I was looking at your bio. You were working in finance before. Is that right?
Tejal: [00:11:21] Yeah, yeah, I was. I, um, go ahead.
Harpinder: [00:11:26] I know just the story of, I guess, like making that decision of, I'm in finance, and then now creating this community and working within yoga, like what did that look like for you?
Leaving Finance to Become a Yoga Teacher
Tejal: [00:11:38] So getting to now, I think, has been this acknowledgement that I can do what I love. And I can accept, like, whatever comes my way through that, but not without acknowledging there will be challenges. So knowing that OK, I transitioned from a somewhat lucrative career into literal unknown cash flow, how do you do that? Well, for me, I was able to save up to do that.
So yes, for eight or nine years, I had worked within my finance degree at two major consumer goods companies, just doing the supportive finance work in financial management and leading teams and just developing in that career path. I also thought it tied really well to my desire to travel. But early on into my career, I realized, like, oh, I'm not going to be able to travel that much with work. I thought I was in a program that I could, but this really won't be the case. You know, when you get into something you realize like, the reality of it is a little different. But I will say that working in that industry for so long did a bunch of things for me, right? I was able to live alone, you know, pretty much on my own right after college. I was able to pay off student loans. My first job transferred me to New York City, which wasn't ever a place I wanted to be. So that's so it's just so interesting to me.
I got to New York City because a company wanted me to be there. But then four years into that role, I left the job. I left the company. I decided that, you know, my personal goals weren't being met, even though professionally, maybe I was doing all right. I took a gap year. I tried to explore if full time temporary work in many different industries, not just in a consumer goods industry, could really fit for me. And essentially, I realize now that I was seeking connection to the work to the people and I didn't find it in that year.
I did get to travel, and I was meeting a lot of people in different industries, but nothing really called out to me, so I ran out of money, which was really real. It's what happened. And I decided to take another job in that same industry. Smaller company, so in the four years that I was at that second company, I was able to do a lot more, get a lot more responsibility. If you know, like the rat race in New York City, if you're a single person, you know, your value is really just as a person that works a lot. So, it's really hard to leave the office and go do your own thing, because it just sounds like nobody's going to value that. Like when you say, Oh, I have to leave to meet my friends, it's really important to me to socialize with my closest friends, people are like, Yeah, you have a deadline. Sit at your desk.
(Everyone laughs.)
Tejal: And I remember there were things that were happening at that job where I was like… feeling like I was at a fork in the road. Like, hmm, do I stay in this job or do I seek other strategies to manage my life? I think at one point, I just stopped drinking. I didn't think that was like a beneficial tactic anymore for coping. And I remember the V.P. of marketing called me into the office with a beer card or something. And I told him, Oh, I'm not drinking right now. And he said, how are you ever going to find a husband if you're not drinking?
Harpinder & Irene: [00:15:31] Oh, wow.
Tejal: [00:15:35] There is a sign that the culture here and this job is not fulfilling me. I'm not being seen. I'm not being met. Also, I don't think that person feels like I'm on the same page as them, like, where's the connection in that? And so I eventually took a yoga teacher training for a couple of reasons: one, to keep me accountable to leave the office, which is just really real. Like, it gave me somewhere to go that was credible. And as a continuation of my own study of yoga. I had no idea how it was being done in the West. I talk about this in episode six of Yoga is Dead: 200 hours of Yoga, that I essentially was a walk-in to a teacher training.
I didn't really have a relationship with the studio. I did not have an asana practice. I just walked in. I had a credit card, paid them out in full the day before, and the next day I was the 20th person in the TT. They're like, Oh, it's fate. We wanted 20, we got 20. I think about that a lot, and I'm like, I really wish… Well, I'm glad it happened the way it happened, but I can look forward and realize that there are pitfalls to that approach. But anyways, you know, I got my certificate while still working, and then I decided to teach and study and I ran like a really small yoga program out of a physical therapy office, and I was still working full time in that finance role. I was also starting up a program in the park in the summer, and I just realized, OK, something's got to give. And that was another fork in the road.
Well, I like my job. I like it even more now that I’m practicing yoga when I want to outside of work. But I love teaching and practicing yoga. So why don't I quit my job and just go and study more yoga, come back and try to teach yoga? And I based it off of love, which is like what you were saying, Irene.
I didn't necessarily hear that choice too much or second guessed it too much, because I also was able to save, you know, and like, put in my logical thinking mind like, Oh, I can do this for X amount of time and be OK. So then I ended up leaving that job. I traveled for about six or eight months. We were really lucky to do that. I told my parents I was going to India for 10 weeks and they totally flipped out and said, if our youngest daughter is going to India because she wants to, we're definitely going with you. So I spent six weeks traveling with them. We went from, you know, the north of the country to the south of the country, places they had never even been when they were living there. And then, I stayed in Kerala and took 300-hour advanced Hatha yoga teacher training at an ashram there, and came back after four weeks to Brooklyn and moved back to New York and started teaching in 2015.
And so, I mean, the story could end at, you know, I was the yoga teacher in New York City teaching twenty, twenty four classes a week. But even then, after I felt grounded in what I was doing, I started to see the gaps and like, notice all the pitfalls to that approach, where I was exhausted and wasn't able to make sustainable income and take care of myself. I didn't have a connection to a yoga community because, quite honestly, I wasn't keeping a practice schedule that made sense.
Feeling Disconnected As a Studio Yoga Teacher & Lack of Representation of South Asian Instructors
And that felt really disconnected. And again, I had this moment where it was like yoga is about connection and union to myself, to something greater, to others around me. And I feel none of that. And instead of leaving yoga this time, I decided to reach out. So I started reaching out to people I knew. I started reaching out to colleagues within yoga to talk about what I was feeling. It was a crazy political time. We were moving into the elections, into 2016. And so I just felt like the need to connect with people in dialogue with people and talk about what was going on. Also what I was feeling and to understand if other people were feeling the same. So, out of that need, I also recognize there was this huge lack of representation of South Asian yoga teachers, and meditation or mindfulness teachers. And that felt like a huge myth and a big disconnect for me. So I asked the several people I knew in your city, you know, they knew other people. We had like a really measly small group of like four or five teachers that we collectively knew. Out of, like two or three people we could only name two other people to talk to to start a little support group. And so I decided to go online and reach out to like the global population through Instagram by creating this ABCD Yogi handle and taking over to showcase what a day in my life as a South Asian yoga teacher looks like, including the rituals, the routines, the classes I taught, the places I went to.
And that's where ABCD Yogi came from. It came from this idea of breaking down geography and reaching out to the South Asian yoga and mindfulness teachers to elevate their voices and showcase what it's like for them to be mindful of teachers because it was such a lack of representation. And then at the same time, I was thinking about the trainings I was taking in yoga, and the microaggressions I was feeling through those trainings. Also, the just appalling like… pay inequity that was going on, and some other stuff that was happening to me at the time. I was getting sued for contract breach, which wasn't the case. I mean, I won, I won the suit. And going through that just felt like a really lack of justice in honoring the practice. So that's where yoga is Dead came from. That's where I transitioned to offering more programs outside of the standard studio yoga teacher and… You know, that's where I met you, Harpinder, you know, when you took over ABCD Yogi and that community is just growing and everyone's doing these beautiful things. So that's where I got to literally like this moment.
Irene: [00:22:18] There's been so many twists and turns in that road, and your path. And I think that that's something that is really good for people to hear about. For all of our listeners to know, that it’s not point A to point B, you're going to go off. You’re going to face forks in the road and you have to trust in your gut and trust your intuition and what it is telling you, and you'll end up perfectly fine! More or less. You brought up ABCD Yogi community and that need to find connection with other people who understand your experiences. So, I love to kind of talk a little bit more about social justice and community and how that shows up for you and how that ties into wellness and yoga.
Social Justice & Representation in the Yoga Industry
Tejal: [00:23:16] Social justice and representation have been in my life for… ever. I attribute a lot of that to my sisters as role models, always trying to have a voice. Always trying to listen to others. It also relates back to my dad wanting to be really involved in community. And even though he uprooted from India and moved here, he still carried a very strong sense of community in terms of the temple community, not just the friend circle. So the friend circle was always there, meeting every weekend, group dinners, kids running around all the time, playing cards, then all that was there.
But, my dad also was really adamant about his temple community, and I think seeing that and being a part of that really shaped how we interact socially, like his daughters. My sister, particularly, was always in student government, always striving for leadership positions, really engaged in community work, and she's just two years older than me. So I took a lot of that from her and I saw how inspiring it was for her and how much energy she gained from that, and also how she was able to do good work. And so I kind of just followed in her footsteps with some different, different hobby work. But I was in student government. I was interested in having a voice, you know, and represent other people. When I went to college just like her, I was a racial ethnic student aid, so I would be a liaison to Asian Pacific Islander American students on campus and, Let's see how their transition was for school, create support programs so that there could be a sense of community.
The people I then interacted with were all activists in that same mindset. And it was when I got to work professionally that I didn't have as much involvement with those groups anymore. I was still really about community like, I remember my first year of working professionally, I started in the volleyball group and everyone's like, That's such a great idea. We've never done that before. Well, it's not a new idea. It's just something I thought I needed, you know, to, like, create. So I've always had this idea of like creating space that felt like that felt really second nature to me.
And also having a voice to offer pathways for representation. Always something that's felt really natural to me. And then, of course, it kind of fell away when it got to New York, and I realized like, I started to find more opportunities to do that, but it was so disconnected to my work. And then once I started to teach yoga, it still felt disconnected. And so I felt like I was doing my passion work. And even though I'm passionate about yoga, it still didn't completely melt. And then I realized I have to be really grounded in teaching. I was like, Wait a minute. The whole point and we did the yoga because I love it. And the whole point of me creating spaces to teach yoga is because I don't want to be boxed into the studio culture or environment.
So this is the moment. This is the transition, I guess, to merge all the things that I'm interested in. And that's what I just get to do in my life and… the reason I feel so passionately about it is because I've just known my whole life that not all stories that need to be told are being shared and, it's super clear to me that we don't exist in a world where those structures are in place. And so without leadership, without people kind of taking up that cause to showcase and represent others and create platforms for others to showcase themselves, that's totally going to get missed, right? Totally going to get missed.
And social justice is really the reckoning that we need equality in all of our resources. We need to have that representation in all of the services that are provided to people. Otherwise, we're just going to forget that the way this country was created, the way many regimes operate is better for some, not better for all, not access, for all. So I find it really relevant to yoga to practice social justice and be very vocal when I offer meditation and yoga classes, that this is a practice that's meant to be accessible to all people. Let's acknowledge what prevents us from this service being accessible, from this way of life being accessible to all people, and that stems from all of the systems that we operate in that are doing exactly what they're designed to do. But creating inequity and creating hierarchy to access.
Irene: [00:28:58] It's so true when we think about creating versus producing, and I think we're all having that awakening where we realize we can create something new and we don't always have to produce the same thing, like I don't have to go teach in a studio setting. I can create something new, and there will be people who want that.
Tejal: [00:29:24] And what would it look like if what we create is collaborative, right? If what we create isn't directed down to us? I remember another conversation I had when I was working in finance. The CEO brought me into his office and he said, Oh, here's what we have in mind for you. Here's where we think your career will go. Is it exciting to have a seat at the big boys table? That's like, who do you think you're talking to?
Irene: [00:29:57] Oh my god.
Tejal: [00:29:57] How does this relate to me in any way? And again, it's like the expectation was to fit into the culture, not to have an inclusive culture. And I just realized over time that this decision to leave a lucrative, financially lucrative position and leadership and management and all these seemingly pillars of success that I was achieving wasn't really a big deal at all to leave. This is just like, oh, I'm going to go do something way better. All the, all the meaning you have attached to all these successes are your own meaning. Like, you never asked me, what is it that I want out of this. And so production over creation, it's so great. But then how do we create something that's collaborative in nature?
So something I try to do with Tejal yoga is, I survey everyone who comes to class one. I give them ideas. I ask for their ideas. And although inherently I own and operate that initiative, I try to keep it as collaborative as possible and honor the communication. And that takes a lot more work than you would think, right. Just to be in touch with as many people that sign up for your classes and to care about that many people. ABCD Yogi, same way. It started off by me having this idea, but it's not a new idea. Not like copywriting it. But now that we're amassing so much interest in such a diverse population, how do we then address the needs of that population and maybe not all the needs of that population. Maybe it's time to really hone in on what are the priorities so that we can collaborate and be really impactful in how we're working and operating as a collective. These are all things to consider. Now that we're kind of breaking the mold over the structure of needing to be an employee and needing to work for someone
Harpinder: [00:32:07] Yeah, I think those are different ways of being when you are working more in collaboration, and I think that is a little bit of that like decolonising work, realizing that we can be inclusive and listen to the voices of those around us and make sure we're uplifting at the same time as we're collaborating. And I would agree that it's not… it’s more work like it's definitely more work, like getting feedback with so many different people. But I also think it just creates this more connected, not always joyous community, because then it allows for people to be like, well, I don't like this part, and you're like, OK, well, let me see what I can do about it or what we can do as a collective. But I think the end creation or the process of, for me has always been just so much more meaningful. I mean, we're going to do as a group of like, say, 20 people and I'm just one. I'm just the one leading it because we start to ask for other opinions. It's just like, Oh, that's actually a very good point. I would love to see if all of us can do that together.
And I think that's like some of the summit, the way it's been evolving has been like the speakers bringing in people into the workshops and try to make this as collaborative of an experience as possible. Because at the end of the day, without community, none of this is possible. I can have a fantastic idea, but if no one buys into it or cares, like what am I doing? Like, at the end of the day, the community is where it's at. And I think that's just been a learning process, like on this journey and on my path as well. So I like the things that you've said and the way you have implemented it, even in ABCD Yogi. For me, I know what I did the takeover, it was nice to sort of be given the mic and have the space to connect with other South Asian Desi yoga teachers that I would never have been able to. So that's really cool that communities like this are being created and they are out there.
Tejal: [00:34:23] Yeah, that's great. I'm glad you have that experience.
Harpinder: [00:34:26] So I'm sure people would love to connect with you. How can they do that?
Tejal: [00:34:33] You know what's funny? I've been told that when you go to my Instagram, you're just like, there's so much happening here. And a lot of people in terms of decolonising, a lot of people have told me like, maybe you should focus on one thing and then only talk about that and… It comes, it's like so jarring to hear that because I’m like, well, no, I'm passionate about quite a few things, and I think it's OK that there's a lot going on. As long as I feel well, as long as I feel at ease doing it. So if you want to connect with me, I mean, there's tons of ways to connect. You can take a yoga class and meditation class. You can take a workshop. ABCD Yogi is a great way if you want to connect and also showcase your voice as a South Asian yoga and mindfulness teacher. We have an ongoing communication with a community after that, so that's a really lovely benefit of being part of ABCD Yogi and having taken over. You can engage by listening to the Yoga is Dead podcast and sharing your feedback about that. Takes us forever to get back to people because something's got to give and all of that, and our priority is to create content for that podcast. But yeah, I mean, there are tons of ways to connect with me. I would suggest if you want to have a real conversation, email me or DM me and I'll give you a pass to class and we'll have some time to really connect.
Irene: [00:36:12] Well, thank you so much, Tejal, for this wonderful chat. We know everyone that will be tuning in will get as much out of this as we did. Yeah, just thank you so much again and thanks to everyone for tuning in.