WoC Summit Podcast: Navi Gill on How Reclaiming our Ancestral Practices Is Deeply Healing Work
Welcome back to Season 1 of the Womxn of Color Summit Podcast!
The Womxn of Color Summit podcast came from a desire to learn from WOC about how they are stepping into their power and embodying their life purpose while dismantling oppressive systems.
Join your hosts Harpinder Mann and Irene Lo as they support BI&WOC on their journey of self-love and soul-care by highlighting speakers who can speak to creative living. We are inherently creative beings with unlimited potential but we can forget the spark within ourselves. Creativity is an act of bravery and our hope with the podcast is to inspire BI&WOC to own their power and pursue their liberation
Support this podcast by leaving us a review on Apple ITunes!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/womxn-of-color-summit-podcast/id1531995133
In this episode, we cover:
Being inspired by culture to tap into creativity
Reclaiming Punjabi Sikh identity, especially as a yoga practitioner
Real social change coming from within & getting to know yourself
Creating from a place of joy rather than from grief
Transcript
Harpinder: [00:00:17] Hi, I'm Harpinder Mann.
Irene: [00:00:19] Hi, I'm Irene Lo, and we are so happy to welcome Navi Gill as today's speaker for the Art of Creative Living: Womxn of Color Summit. So, before we get started, please let everyone know who you are and what you do, Navi.
Navi: [00:00:35] My name is Navi Gill, as you said. I am an Ayurveda practitioner, a holistic wellness educator and the core of my practices in Ayurveda is also to decolonize wellness and bring more accessibility to ancestral medicine practices, specifically for black, indigenous, and people of color.
Irene: [00:00:55] Thank you so much for that introduction. How are you doing today?
Navi: [00:01:00] I'm doing well considering the last few weeks. It's been pretty nonstop of holding space and also making sure I'm practicing my self-care, but really just like showing up for folks who do need that support with their wellness right now. And just now, kind of figuring out how we're all going to sustain the ways we have been showing up for ourselves, people in our lives. So I'm doing well. How are both of you doing?
Harpinder: [00:01:32] Yeah, thanks for asking. It's an interesting time, just with everything that's going on. I know for myself, in the moments when I do experience joy or find that I am finding pleasure in what I'm doing, there is always this sort of reminder of like as much as I'm experiencing joy. Like, there's also understanding what's happening in the world and making sure that we are providing resources and making sure that we're doing our part for the black indigenous people of color, especially with Black Lives Matter. So it's interesting. I feel like I keep having to ensure that I am staying as connected as I can without burning out. Because this is, I think, with the Black Lives Matter movement, this is sort of for me, it's a reminder of not to burn out and to ensure that I am doing the work that I can to do my part to help. That's not really how I'm doing, but it's just something that's been on my mind all day long. So I felt nice, just kind of voice it right now. But I think today it's been a nice day. I'm in L.A. It's been beautiful. Thanks for asking.
Navi: [00:02:44] I wish I was in L.A..
Irene: [00:02:50] Yeah, no. I, you know, echo what Harpinder’s saying in terms of the last few weeks have been a lot. It's been really eye-opening and also sustaining that work is sustaining that education. I've been finding myself actually taking a bit of a break from social media just to hear everyone else's voices and reshare and think about ways that I can contribute from a family and friends perspective to, you know, more political and societal level. So it has just been hard, but I am really, really loving the energy globally. So, yeah.
Harpinder: [00:03:35] So a question that we are asking to all of our speakers is what does it mean to be creative to you?
Navi: [00:03:43] To be creative, to me, it's… I don't think that it's something that I can intellectualize into words, but if I had to, it would be being in flow. I've always been someone who really thrives when I get to create, especially if I'm creating something with my hands. Now, because of everything being online, I really have to put so much of my work, whether it's in writing or like putting it into some sort of digestible format. I really love being able to play with it and make it my own thing, even though it's this ancient knowledge, how I'm going to deliver it to people like really getting creative with that. I'm really someone who enjoys visually creating things. So whether it's, yeah, like online or with my hands, or if I'm creating a gift for someone. So creativity is like, I think, tapping into that aspect of my higher self.
Yeah. And when I feel really tuned in, that's when I'm able to create with ease and flow. And especially you were talking about social media and taking a break from it. Like, you know, it's become such a huge part of our lives and a lot of people's livelihoods and work depends on how creative they can be on social media. And everyone has their different ways of doing things, and like everyone always has advice to give, whether that's unsolicited or not. But people always say like, you should be doing more of this or more of this out. And I always say, like, for me, whatever I put out with my work, it's like, it really is channeling that higher self. And it only comes out in that creative flow when I'm connected. Like, I can't be something like force myself to create something and put it out because it never feels right, it's like there's a staleness to it. So. I just got it. That's it for me is like being in flow and tapping into the higher self.
Irene: [00:05:56] There is an excitement, a genuine excitement and a joy when you tap into creativity. And then what you're talking about in terms of like, it shouldn't feel like you're producing based on other people's expectations. You just know instinctively there is that connection.
Harpinder: [00:06:18] And that’s something me and Irene were talking about yesterday. A part of creativity is sort of following your curiosity instead of allowing fear to block you or hinder you or allow fear to be the reason that you're creating. It's like other people are creating. So I'm also going to create and it's like, I feel like when we're listening to our higher selves, that never feels right. It just is not authentic.
Navi: [00:06:44] Yeah, definitely. Authenticity has a big part to play in it. And for me, whether that's in my personal life or in my work in Nairobi, authenticity is like a non-negotiable. And that is a big part of creativity, is when I'm putting something that's supposed to be a reflection of me and my work, like, what is it that I want people to feel? What is it that I want them to take away from this? And it's like, for me, a piece of writing is the same as if I was sitting there in person giving someone a healing treatment like I would want them to, like, feel a certain type of way. So if it's inauthentic to me, then it just doesn't feel like it has space to be put out. That's just my… being, you could say hard on myself or yeah, that's just how I've always operated.
Harpinder: [00:07:41] Yeah, I know. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, Irene, if you're going to say something.
Irene: [00:07:55] No, no, you're OK.
Harpinder: [00:08:00] Yeah, something like again, something me and Irene were talking about before this call, is that a piece of what we feel we admire about your work is that it seems like you have your non-negotiables and boundaries that you stick to. And I think that comes from really knowing yourself, and knowing how to care for yourself, and respect yourself. And there's a part of that that comes into, like, placing those boundaries. And that's something that I've seen from your work and the way that you speak to others that I think we both really admire in that when you do get to know yourself, you know when to set those boundaries.
Navi: [00:08:30] Yeah, thank you for saying that because it's… I think that's lifelong work, to be honest, and it makes me feel really nice to actually hear that, that that's reflected because learning how to have boundaries, you know, one as a woman, two as a woman of color, and then three doing this work that. It is not it's not a one time thing, it's a commitment for a lifetime to decolonise these practices, to reclaim this work and to really create equity not just for myself and my people, but all black and indigenous people of color in the world.
That's what I would want to do and to have boundaries, especially in wellness, when everybody wants to be well and when you are someone who is trying to facilitate that, whether that's in my field or even like teaching yoga is a big one, where people start to look to you as the provider of the wellness for them. So I really had to learn how to create those boundaries. And every day is different. Like sometimes I'll still, you know, allow people to enter those boundaries, or someone will find a way to do it in a way that I haven't dealt with before that I have to counteract. The only way to sustain and do this work is to have those strong, energetic and physical boundaries and spiritual boundaries, because otherwise we're the ones as healers and practitioners that will get burnt out. So then if we're not able to take care of ourselves first, how are we possibly going to look and like, participate in creating that bigger change globally and like, in a bigger way throughout our lifetime?
Irene: [00:10:25] Creativity is definitely an act of healing and through your work, that's that seen. I just want to switch gears a little bit and talk a little bit about what perhaps blockages obstacles that might have held you back for saying yes to creativity.
Navi: [00:10:47] I think sometimes they are subconscious. Again, like when the creative flow comes, it means that I'm along the way practicing my self-care so that I can have that clear channel. I look at things very much from a spiritual perspective just because of my spiritual path. It's the lens I see everything in, so I understand that like when my prana is low and I'm not centered and my emotions are not balanced and I'm not eating the right foods and I'm not sleeping well, like I'm not a clear channel and creativity needs that channel to come through. So most of the time, it's like daily habits. Simple things like especially when the work that we're doing is so much in demand.
Sometimes you do forgo eating on time or sleeping on time because you have to show up for people that need it. And that's been a big challenge for me. Always is having boundaries, yes. But then I'm a person who, like, always wants to make sure I do my due diligence and I always want to make sure I put in the 100 percent. And like, if I've committed to something, I'm going to do it and I'm going to kill it. So. But at the expense of my own health and well-being, and I would say that's a big one. Like, daily habits would be something that I've had to maybe subconsciously not say no to creativity, but it hasn't arrived for me and other things, just like growing up as a as a Punjabi Sikh woman, creativity was never something that was really explored or encouraged in the way that I wanted to be creative. Like, I was always creating, like in my house, like my parents. We didn't have like a lot of other toys, but I had a lot of craft supplies, like every type of markers, glitters glues, like all those kits, like when I was younger, they would have like these kits where you would like do some project, and each kit was like a different project. And I would spend hours in my room creating and that was like the best time. I just remember like… Never wanting to leave my room, and I still feel that way now.
So I don't even remember where I was going with that, but yeah, it wasn't encouraged in that way. So maybe shying away or saying no to creativity because I didn't know how it would fit into my life. Like, I never thought of, like growing up that, hey, maybe I'll be an artist, or maybe I'll be a musician, or maybe I'll be a singer or a writer.
Like those things weren't what I would think of as my life path. Yet they're the things that nourish me so, so much in being able to do this work that is a part of my life.
So inevitably, they're interwoven in there now that I know myself, like you said, Harpinder, more and more. Now I'm like, Oh, OK, I don't need to say no to these things because inevitably they're all interconnected. Otherwise, yeah, I don't think it's just really been like, well, can I prioritize being creative right now over everything else that I might feel like I have to do or other people think of that, I have to do. That's it. Otherwise, for me, it's really like when that flow comes, I have to let it go, and I have to follow it, and like whatever project it could be like the simplest thing, like if I want to make something like right now, my mind will already be like gathering all the supplies being like, OK, I have this in my closet and this and this, and until I see it come to life, I can't stop.
Irene: [00:14:55] this is so true, though, like that feeling that intensity, the spark of creativity, it does feel as though there is something higher that is that you're tapping into? It's like little spirit guides.
Harpinder: [00:15:12] Yeah, yeah. The next thing we did want to ask was if there's any piece of advice or anything that you want to say to womxn of color who might be feeling creatively blocked? So whether that's subconsciously feeling blocked, or maybe there's power structures in play, white supremacy, the patriarchy, capitalism, and the list can go on.
Navi: [00:15:39] The holy trinity!
Harpinder: [00:15:41] The holy trinity keeping us down. What advice would you have for…?
Navi: [00:15:45] I would say that you need to know the self and to do that, we have to go inward. Our world really rewards us when we are external-focused and when we're very vocal about things or very loud about things, and that's definitely necessary depending on what we're doing, but in order for that change to really come and you embody that creativity is to be in solitude and to know yourself. For me, I spent a lot of my 20s exploring my spiritual path and like, meditating, and breathing, and being in silence for extended periods of time and exploring the eastern spiritual paths that I was exposed to. And that is what gave me an understanding of myself and my capacity, and really understanding that, like, when I'm taking care of myself and I have daily practices that nourish me, I'm limitless. Whether that's in my physical capacity, whether that's in my creativity, whatever facet of myself I'm looking at, if I'm trying to be creative, but I'm completely depleted and I'm eating crappy food, I'm not sleeping well, I'm stressed, I have anxiety and I'm not doing anything to counteract those things, the creativity is going to be very either short lived or very surface level. And to me, everything that I stand for is about embodiment. And really, it's one thing to have knowledge, but another thing to have wisdom. You have to look at what it is that you want when it comes to your creativity. For me, it's always, I want to embody it. I want to walk into the room and like, it's coming from my spirit when I walk in without me having to say anything.
Irene: [00:20:33] I love that. I love what you said. You know, in one part of it, you know, there's this whole theme of like, you don't have to push, you don't have to push your creativity. Obviously, there's patience and it's a lifelong journey, but you don't have to be broken down, stressing yourself out to produce and create. It can come from a place of joy.
Navi: [00:20:55] That place of joy is what I think is the most fruitful. I think like when we're talking about, I mean, creativity has so many different forms, but like, so many things, we've connected, like whether it's poetry or music, it's like we have to go through some sort of deep despair. You know, there's that old idea that like, that's when the best music comes out because you're in so much pain. And I think, of course, that there's truth to that. But why is that? It’s because when we're in that place, we're deeply in touch with ourselves. That grief takes inward and then that creativity comes. But I would rather go inward with peace, and with stability, and with ease, rather than have to go the other way around.
Irene: [00:21:43] Yeah. With integrity.
Harpinder: [00:21:48] Something that I was just wondering about when it comes to your background is, I know you speak a lot about reclaiming our heritage and connecting back to our ancestral practices. What did that journey look like for you? Was it something as a child being really accepting of, say, being Punjabi or Sikhism and Ayurveda? Or was it this longer path to coming back to it?
Navi: [00:22:13] I'm still on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a question with many layers, but I'll do my best to answer. So, I grew up in a Punjabi family. I'm first generation born and raised in B.C., in Surrey, and I'm the oldest of three daughters, which is an important element to note. And parents, they come from Punjab. And, you know, my mom's family has been here for like 40 years or something now. And then my dad came after him and my mom got married, but I grew up very much with that. Immigrant parent, extended family. Really being connected however my parents could hang on to their roots, which through faith and through family was a big thing. So to me, I connected so much to my heritage through creativity. It was through music, it was through dancing, it was through food like those and clothes and dressing up in my Punjabi clothes. Like, that's how I really stayed connected and I was even, when I was younger, I would learn to read and write Punjabi.
And then it wasn't until I got older and I would say high school, I had to pick a side. I was deeply connected to my Punjabi. But like, I didn't feel connected to Sikh in the way that I do now because it was very much, like, the dogma of it and like people trying to tell me how I could only be this way if I wanted to be a good Sikh. It looked like this, but I was like, Well, those things aren't me. So does that mean I'm not a proper Sikh?
So, and yeah, and you know, growing up, I had friends from all different backgrounds and I was a person and I still am. I love, you know, different people and understanding and really exploring, like, the culture of my friends and their families and their food. And suddenly, when I came to high school, it was like I was too white for the brown people and too brown for the white people. So I kind of just was floating with all my friends. And then in my 20s, it was very much like, OK, now all my friends were only South Asian because I was trying to really explore my spiritual path. And in that group, those were my core group of friends. And now I'm like, in another phase of my life where I'm back to like, expanding that open space in my heart and feeling safe that I can go outside because, I really just feel like I'm not just made for like one community, and, like, all my friends, when they bring their uniqueness and they bring their life parts and it connects to me, it brings forward a part of me that is already there. But it's like when you come together with the other people in your life, there's such a unique magic that happens and those parts of my life are the most fruitful and the most rich.
I don't know if that answers your question, but to get back into Ayurveda and all those things that was all like Dharma. That wasn't something I decided to do. It just happened to come to my life so strongly like that flow of creativity when it happens. And I spent all of my twenties from when I was twenty three years old to now, so it's going to be like ten years, trying to find my way back. Trying to be like, OK, what does this work look like? What am I supposed to do? Because this wasn't a career option that was on the table. Like, when they bring that form over, like in high school for you to check off, like this was Ayurveda practitioner decolonizing wellness. Definitely not on there.
And this is something like in the last three years has really blown up. And this year now everybody knows, like decolonization is the hottest word on the block right now. And I didn't know. It just happened to work out that way because I think my value system, it wasn't that I could just do that and make it into a business, or I could just teach yoga. And I was OK with that, because I explored all those paths I started with, like being trained as a yoga teacher and I was like, this doesn't feel complete. And then I was like, OK, maybe I need to be a life coach. That didn't feel complete. And with my Ayurvedic studies, it's a lifelong process which, like, I still am going to continue studying more because I want to really have that wisdom and really keep it with the traditional ways that it was meant to be learned, but bring it to my people because it just seems like, if we're going to do any of this work, it has to benefit more than just me. So that's I guess where I'm at now. And I love that I was able to come back home to myself and my culture and like not just identifying as a South Asian or an Indian, but really as a Punjabi Sikh woman has been such a powerful thing for me. And to say that without being fearful that I'm not going to be accepted somewhere or that I need to like code-switch myself to fit in with white folks or even my own South Asian folks who really didn't and still don't, a lot of the time, get me or what I'm talking about, but maintaining that, like once you meet yourself, it's very hard to go back.
Harpinder: [00:28:34] Yeah, I know for me, the first time I heard you speak was during Eliana’s Thrive program, where you gave a presentation on Ayurveda: Decolonizing Wellness, and during that time I was actually in India, in Punjab with my cousins. There were certain things that you were saying that, at that time I just needed to hear. Because I remember that, yeah, like being around my cousins, like they were just like, Oh, like, how can you be like a Sikh and then also practice yoga? It was just such a weird place to be where it's like, I feel like I'd done this, like, journey and this work of coming to myself and then to see like in this community of my family being questioned on like, well, who are you really like? Who are you trying to be? I was just a little bit confused and then hearing your presentation and then being able to speak to you and I was like, OK. And I think for me, that's what's so powerful as we start to follow along on our path and become authentic to ourselves, is you start to inspire others. There are others that look at you and they're just like, Oh. Yes, I can be myself!
Irene: [00:29:50] Or I can do that. Yeah.
Harpinder: [00:29:53] Yeah! And I think you were that for me during that time. And it was just so powerful and just another reminder that I can stay on my path and be authentic to myself. And even if other people question that, that's OK.
Navi: [00:30:07] Hundred percent, and like, I didn't have that growing up. I didn't have role models that I looked at that look like me that were interested in spirituality and holistic medicine. And like, all these things like, you know, that wasn't a thing. And that's why, like, I just started to look at it as if I could go back and be there for myself, like we're all ancestors in training. So I want to be able to really cultivate a life and live a life where, like people look back and say, Yeah, damn, that was my great great grandma. And like, she did this shit, you know? And it's going to look different from what our ancestors did. They had different missions in for a lot of our cultures. It was about surviving and they survived. And actually most of them didn't survive genocide and war. And we have the opportunity and the privilege right now to do the things that they didn't get to do.
Harpinder: [00:31:13] Yeah, I know for me, the first time I heard you speak was during Eliana’s Thrive program, where you gave a presentation on Ayurveda: Decolonizing Wellness, and during that time I was actually in India, in Punjab with my cousins. There were certain things that you were saying that, at that time I just needed to hear. Because I remember that, yeah, like being around my cousins, like they were just like, Oh, like, how can you be like a Sikhi and then also practice yoga? It was just such a weird place to be where it's like, I feel like I'd done this, like, journey and this work of coming to myself and then to see like in this community of my family being questioned on like, well, who are you really like? Who are you trying to be? I was just a little bit confused and then hearing your presentation and then being able to speak to you and I was like, OK. And I think for me, that's what's so powerful as we start to follow along on our path and become authentic to ourselves, is you start to inspire others. There are others that look at you and they're just like, Oh. Yes, I can be myself!
Irene: [00:32:29] Or I can do that. Yeah.
Harpinder: [00:32:32] Yeah! And I think you were that for me during that time. And it was just so powerful and just another reminder that I can stay on my path and be authentic to myself. And even if other people question that, that's OK.
Navi: [00:32:46] Hundred percent, and like, I didn't have that growing up. I didn't have role models that I looked at that look like me that were interested in spirituality and holistic medicine. And like, all these things like, you know, that wasn't a thing. And that's why, like, I just started to look at it as if I could go back and be there for myself, like we're all ancestors in training. So I want to be able to really cultivate a life and live a life where, like people look back and say, Yeah, damn, that was my great great grandma. And like, she did this shit, you know? And it's going to look different from what our ancestors did. They had different missions in for a lot of our cultures. It was about surviving and they survived. And actually most of them didn't survive genocide and war. And we have the opportunity and the privilege right now to do the things that they didn't get to do.
Irene: [00:33:55] So powerful. Totally resonating with that immigrant in me. But in terms of our listeners here, how can they connect with you?
Navi: [00:34:12] Through the spirit!
Irene: [00:34:16] (Laughs.)
Navi: [00:34:17] They can find me on Instagram. It's @navigillwellness. That's where when the creative flow comes it, it'll be up there. Any events, anything I'm doing projects, it's all there. My website, if they want to do any readings further on what Ayurveda is is, how it works. I have tons of readings up there on my Navi Notes. Again, the website is an navigillwellness.com. And if they are interested, right now, I'm not obviously doing any in-person work, but all my consultations, if they need to do online, they can find all that stuff there too.
Irene: [00:34:55] Great, thank you so much.
Navi: [00:34:57] Thank you, both.
Harpinder: [00:34:59] Awesome. Thanks so much for taking this time. Being one of our speakers and for just such an enlightening and inspirational conversation. I know that everyone that tunes in is going to find this to be slightly inspirational, if not even super inspirational. Thank you so much for being a speaker. So lovely to chat with you.